Ludonarrative Dissidents

I’ve just stumbled upon the Ludonarrative Dissidents podcast which I’m enjoying (I’ve only listened to two episodes so far.

Ludonarrative Dissidents is a podcast about rpgs, how they’re made and how they’re played. In each episode, Ross Payton, Greg Stolze and James Wallis take a critical look at a particular ttrpg.

I think there are about 40 episodes so far, and I’m not going to listen to them all (largely because they often talk about games I have no interest in), but I will dip into them as and when.

So far, I’ve listened to the very first episode (Apocalypse World), ALIEN: Chariot of the Gods, and I’ve just started the Fiasco episode.

(There are occasional episodes that cover things like using cards in rpgs, initiative systems, metacurrencies and so on. And even an actual play or two. I’ve not listened to those yet.)

The good

The discussions are interesting, with all three hosts having a good knowledge of the games industry. The discussions are friendly, although I sometimes get Greg Stolze and Ross Payton confused because their voices sound a little similar to me.

So far, they’ve been pretty much in agreement with the games. It will be interesting to hear an episode where they disagree.

And the show notes for Season 3 (written by James) are excellent, and cross-reference everything they talk about.

The pillars

According to the website, every episode of Ludonarrative Dissidents is built around four pillars:

• What does this game do?
• How does it do that?
• How do people play it?
• Why do they play it that way?
• (and how well does it succeed?)

Do they answer the questions? Maybe, but I’d be hard pressed to tell you their answers.

I wish the team were a little more strict in sticking to this approach. While I was expecting the first episode to be a bit scrappy and unfocused, I had imagined that 40 episodes later, things (ALIEN: Chariot of the Gods is one of the recent episodes) would be a little slicker, but no.

For example, I was expecting that after 40 episodes, each episode would have a slick intro, where they would introduce themselves and the game they are talking about and the four pillars (and then structure the podcast around those four pillars). But no. At least, not in the episodes I’ve heard so far.

Not everyone has played the game…

My biggest criticism, however, is that in the two podcasts I’ve listened to so far, only one of the three (Ross Payton) has actually played or run the game. (Not even Apocalypse World.) 

That seems to be a bit of a failing if you’re going to discuss the game in depth. You can’t even run a one-shot? You can’t even play a one-shot?

I know lots of other ttrpg reviewers don’t run the games either (I don’t always, although I try to), but I suspect that some of the commentary on ALIEN: Chariot of the Gods would be different had they all run the game. (For example, most reviews I’ve seen of Chariot of the Gods love the agendas that the pregens come with. Greg Stolze was dead against them – but he hasn’t played or run the game.)

They wouldn’t even have to run a game – I’m sure they could find someone to run a game for them.

Overall

Anyway, with that caveat aside, it’s definitely worth listening to – especially for games you are interested in. I’ve added it to my podcast feed.

A couple of days later: I've just listened to the Traveller episode, and they still don't introduce the podcast properly. They don't introduce who they are, and they don't say what their experience of the game is. That's not hard to do and makes it seem really amateurish. (Compare with Fear of a Black Dragon, which is excellent in this regard.)

The scope of their comments also ought to be explained. For example, in the Traveller episode, they are only looking at Mongoose's 2022 rulebook, not the rest of the Traveller line (or its history - although they mention it). That's the sort of thing that ought to be made clear in an introduction. 

They also don't clearly address their four pillars – instead it’s just a rambling discussion. That’s fine, but if so don’t pretend to have these four pillars.

Quintin Smith’s rule of three on the Bastionland podcast

I’ve just listened to Quintin Smith (Quinns) on Chris McDowell’s Bastionland podcast. The idea of the podcast is that guests bring three games to discuss. Quinns brought Torchbearer, Sidereal Confluence, and Jubensha.

(Quinns is a games journalist who used to review boardgames on Shut Up And Sit Down and now reviews tabletop RPGs on Quinns Quest.)

While the podcast is great, four things specifically caught my attention.

#1 Sidereal Confluence

This sounds just up my street. Sidereal Confluence is an economic trading board game with simultaneous play, asymmetric powers, and negotiation that copes with up to nine players. Sounds awesome!

It also sounds like a great base for the trading rules in a freeform…

Having read more about Sidereal Confluence on boardgamegeek, the designer is writing an RPG around the setting. (His design notes tell the story of the game, while this thread goes into the underlying logic of the different aliens.)

Anyway, Sidereal Confluence is now on my wish list, although I don’t know when I’ll get to play it because it’s a four player game and I don’t think it will appeal to Mrs H.

The point Quinns was making by referring to a board game in an RPG podcast was, why don’t we see more unbalanced PCs in RPGs? The current trend is for balanced PCs, but why not experiment with making them unbalanced – or at least so they play very differently?

I’m not sure I have a strong view, but it’s an interesting point, and I can imagine Most Trusted Advisors would work with asymmetric powers.

#2 Jubensha

Their discussion around Jubensha clarified (I think) some of the differences between Jubensha and freeforms. Because Jubensha is designed for six players, the game is more focused on those players’ emotional journey. (There are lots of larps that do this (especially Nordic larps), but Jubensha sounds more mechanical than most larps.)

For me, however, I love the buzz that I get from a large multi-player freeform. At Peaky, we typically write games for 8-10 players, and often, that seems too small for me.

#3 What can other games learn from having a GM at the table?

Quinns and McDowell also discussed games where one person has a facilitating (ie a GM) role. TTRPGs are almost unique in that regard: it’s not something you often see in boardgames or traditional murder mystery games, and they reflected that maybe Western-style murder mystery games could learn something.

Of course, I was shouting at the podcast because that’s what we do at Freeform Games. We call our GMs “hosts.”

(I wasn’t shouting very loudly, though, because if we’d been better at spreading the word then maybe things would be different.)

#4 Why don’t we see more pre-generated PCs?

Finally, Quinns pointed out that the advantage of giving players pregens (which happens in Jubensha – and freeforms) is that it lets the designer link the characters together to create tension and drama.

And why don’t RPGs do more of that?

I think the answer is:

• Historical, as in it’s not how D&D did it back in 1974. And that’s now become cultural – ie, players creating their own characters is now how rpgs work.
• Most players like the ownership that comes from creating their own character. Only weirdos like me would rather be given a character.
• Pregenerated PCs are great for one-shots and may not be suited for endless campaigns.

That’s not to say that inter-character linkage isn’t happening.

Many PbtA games have questions linking characters on their playsheets, and the pregens in ALIEN’s cinematic scenarios are designed to drive the adventure in interesting directions. (I’m sure there are others.)

Then there’s Lady Blackbird, which feels like an almost-perfect blend of situation, character and rules. (McDowell and Quinns touch briefly on Lady Blackbird – I wrote about it here.)

 And as I’ve said before (and hinted at here), getting your pregens right for a convention game is half the battle. I find that when players are riffing off each other’s characters and the characters are tied into the scenario, my life as a GM is so much easier.

Quintin Smith’s rule of three

So anyway, give the podcast a listen. It’s worth it.